C. Steven: Hello. Today "The Writer's Mind" is visiting with Julia Drake. Julia Drake is one of the co-founders of Wildbound literary promotion company. It's in Los Angeles. She's the co-founder, I guess, with your husband, Jared Drake, and from their website, "Wildbound," specializes in custom-book companies. They use the latest trends in traditional and digital media to build awareness for authors and their works. In addition, they also run TrailerShelf, which is a place for book trailers and video advertising specific to books. She also wrote a travel book, "Los Angeles Tour-Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Santa Monica, Venice Beach: A Self Guided Pictorial Sightseeing Tour," in 2010. Boy, you're busy.

Julia: I have, you know, a lot of interests, just like you.

C. Steven: Well, I gotta say that the thing that actually drew me to you was TrailerShelf. I put my first book trailer up there, and I had no idea that it was just part of this much larger company. So I wanna start my questions with TrailerShelf. I can see that's gonna be a problem, TrailerShelf, and we'll go up to what you guys do with Wildbound.

Julia: Okay.

C. Steven: Okay. So with TrailerShelf in mind, how long has it been around...I mean, first of all, how did you get started? How long has it been around?

Julia: Actually, the official launch was just this morning. So it hasn't been around that long. It's been around in the making for a long time, you know, but the official launch was actually this morning. So we have, you know, a lot promotion, a lot of things that are coming up for the website, you know, to kind of get out there and get the word out. And we're working with different publishers, and authors. But this morning was the official birth of TrailerShelf.

C. Steven: So when was it conceived? And how long has it been in its pre-existence?

Julia: It was conceived two years ago, when my husband and I, we spoke at the San Francisco Writers Conference. And one of the speaking engagements or the topics that we like to talk about are book trailers. And, you know, book trailers have been around for a while on the literary scene, but the quality is just not very good. So I feel like there's little bit of a stigma attached to book trailers. And with my husband and I, we come from a phone background, so for us, you know, it really was kind of a challenge to say, you know, how do we bring books to the screen without taking away the reader's imagination? Because that's obviously the problem here.

Because it's similar to a movie trailer, but with the movie trailer, you're actually going to watch the movie. Verses with a book, you really just want to inspire an emotional connection, you know, kind of get some visuals going in your imagination, but you don't want to take away from the reader's imagination of actually reading the book. Because, as you know, we could all be reading the same book, you know, 100 people in a room, and everyone would see something different in their heads. So we don't wanna take that away.

So that was kind of a fun thing for us to think about because we really love visual storytelling. And so our company, Wildbound, we specialize in high-end book trailers for our clients, you know, that have been featured in the "The New York Times," the "New York Daily News," "BBC," you know, and so on. And so we really thought, you know, let's kind of push the creative spirit in that arena, and TrailerShelf is kind of the place for that. You know, we really want to see what people can do and how they can use video creatively to promote books.

C. Steven: So you also then produce the books, as well as let other people put their trailers on your site?

Julia: We produce book trailers. Yes, correct. For our clients, yeah.

C. Steven: And then for people, like me, who just, you know, make a trailer and then, you know, put it up on your site, is there a quality, you know, some sort of quality that they need to go through to make sure that it's okay, it's good enough, you know, that you think it's something that would be worthy of being on TrailerShelf?

Julia: Yeah, exactly. Because that's something that we really...you know, we want TrailerShelf unit to be set apart from other websites that do feature book trailers by going, you know, with very high standards for the videos. You know, so every video that gets submitted goes through a rigorous, you know, review process by my husband and I, and then we have a couple of other people on our team that are, you know, either filmmakers or that are in the literary industry. You, know, it's really important to us that everything that's on the site is just great and creative. Which is why we accepted your trailer because it was very creative and it was fun and it made us want to read your book. I mean, that's the whole point of video promotion.

C. Steven: Well, thank you. So, I guess, my follow-up then is who do you hope this audience is going to be? And how are you going to draw them into your website?

Julia: Yeah, I think the target audience, you know, is the modern reader, because as you know, your engagement, you know, drives everything online now. So, you know, we live in a very visual society, and so it's pretty much anyone who is, you know, watches things on their mobile phone, pretty much any consumer, I mean, if you think about it. I mean, I would probably say that the target audience is probably from about, you know, teenage like 15 to 40, probably. You know, I think if you get a little bit older, then it just depends on how savvy people are, but I definitely feel like it's a visual audience.

And then there's, obviously, the movie-goer audience who...I mean, what we're hoping to do too is get people who are probably not readers excited about reading by actually watching some of these videos. So it's a pretty mainstream audience that we're targeting.

C. Steven: So do you hope that in the future, you'll have some sort of link from areas where there are readers, like "Goodreads" or "BookBub," will have some kind of link or maybe even, you know, the reader forums in "reddit," something like that?

Julia: Yeah, correct. That's what we're working on right now. So we're working with various publishers like the big five, as well as independent publishers and authors, and also the literary sites like "Goodreads," you know, social literary sites as well as the trending sites like "Lit Hub" and "Daily Beast" and "BuzzFeed," you know, to work with us to make sure that we spread the word about the site.

C. Steven: Okay. And now, when I went on the site, I noticed that there was an option for a sponsored listing. So this is where we would pay an additional fee, and what would happen?

Julia: So there's different options. One is obviously that you get prime placement on the homepage somewhere, you know, in either the popular trailer section or staff pics, or, you know, your book would be the cover image for a certain genre. So if you wrote a mystery, then your book will be the cover image for mystery. And then we also are developing a mailing list, you know, a newsletter. So there's also placement in the newsletter.

C. Steven: Okay. Well, that sound excellent. What about content control? Are there rules that need to be adhered to, for example, no swear words, no nudity, that sort of thing?

Julia: You know, I think it would probably be on a case-by-case basis. I mean, I'm sure, you know, there are certain things that, you know, like just graphic, content, or where we would have to just kind of see, you know, is it...because it's supposed to be a mainstream site. I mean, we really want to leave it up to our judgment, you know. And it's a team of four that decides and so we feel like we don't want to put rigorous standards on it, but, you know, I think it's more of a commonsense sort of decision.

C. Steven: Okay. You know, for people who are producing trailers, especially for the people who produce their own trailers, do you think that there's, I don't know, an appropriate length for the size of a trailer? I mean, you know, two minutes, a minute, 30 seconds. What do you think?

Julia: The shorter, the better, I would say. I would say the best trailers are probably between a minute to a minute and a half.

C. Steven: Okay. And do you have any recommendations for people who are, you know, the do-it-yourselfers like myself who'll go out and try and produce their own trailers?

Julia: Well, there is on our website, there's actually a link where you can download our presentation that we do. It's about, usually, a three-hour presentation that we do, as a speaking engagement, and it goes through everything from, you know, story development, to pre-production, to production, to post-production, to distribution, promotion, you know, all of that. So I'd be happy to send you the link to download.

C. Steven: Okay. And then, how do you think book trailers help? Do you really they help move sales?

Julia: Yes. I think they help in several ways. I think, one, particularly for independently published authors or self-published authors, they really help build your credibility, because I head-up the media department at Wildbound, and I would definitely say that a lot of media contacts, you know, they're so overwhelmed with all the books that, you know, get sent to them for review that, obviously, you know, most of the time they will pass on a self-published book. They won't even really look at it.

But, you know, if can hook them with a short trailer and I can say, you know, "Take a look at this," and he looks professionally produced, it looks enticing, then they might take a look at the book. So it opens doors. You know, I also feel like there's all kinds of ways, and you can use it on social media, you can put it on your website. If you do events, you can screen it at your events. It's always a great way to break the ice. You know, when you have a bunch of people in the room, and, you know, you kind of want to get conversation going, you know, just start off with a short trailer, you know, it really helps discussion. So there's just a lot of ways that you can use your trailer.

C. Steven: Well, that's really an excellent idea. I'll have to remember that next time. I like that. So if somebody is actually going to pay for you guys to come up with the trailer, how does that creative process work in terms of going back and forth, in terms of what they want, in terms of what you think is actually better and more marketable?

Julia: Yeah. I would say we really really like to be involved in the very beginning, in terms of the script development and brainstorming concepts, because that's really the golden core that everything springs from, you know. And what we see a lot is like people have some sort of...you know, they go with the first idea they have, and then they don't really think about, you know, the context in terms of, you know, how much this is going to take to produce, you know. And they don't write the script. They just kind of go and start shooting stuff. And it just never works.

So we really like to be there at the very beginning. I mean, you've been in the film industry, it's really...there's just a lot of half-baked stuff. And so we really come in the beginning. We make sure that we come up with a great concept, you know, that falls in line with the budget that the author has. And then we write the script and, you know, oversee everything. So yeah.

C. Steven: What would be the turnaround time be for something like that?

Julia: You know, it depends on how busy we are, but we usually...you know, we try to...you know, I would say about a month to a month and a half.

C. Steven: Okay. So then, certainly, especially the DIY'ers and the independent authors, they need to plan ahead for this. They really need to keep it in the back of their mind when they're thinking about what their promotion is or what the promotional strategy is going to be.

Julia: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. I mean, what we mostly do with the clients that we work with, that we produce book trailers for, we usually release the trailer about a month or so before publication date, to really, you know, get buzz going and really kind of, you know, arch toward the publication date and bring awareness to the release.

C. Steven: And I didn't notice this, but is there a place for people to review the trailers, to basically say, "Hey, I love this trailer," or, "Oh, my god, I was so bored by this trailer," is that gonna be on the website at all?

Julia: Right now, we don't have user interaction. But at some point, we do want it to become more of a social community, but for now, it's more of a...you know, we're the staff where we kind of decide, you know, what we want to feature. So it's more of an editorial process, but at some point, we will make it more social.

C. Steven: Okay. All right. So as I said before, the trailer side is just sort of the tip of a much larger iceberg, and that iceberg is called Wildbound. I mean, first of all, how do you go...I think your bio said that you're from Germany, and you came out...you went to UCLA film school. And how do you go from that to saying, "Let's start a book PR business"?

Julia: Yeah, I know. It's kind of funny. So I met my husband Jared at UCLA Film School. You know, we both...we just love story telling. And so when we graduated from film school, you know, we produced our first feature with Zach Galifianakis. It was a dark comedy, and we really kind of got our hands wet in the movie business. But as you probably know, I mean, it's just really had to get anything going, you know. You know, we're kind of movers and shakers, and we really just hate to keep waiting for things to happen.

And so we kind started working with writers that we knew that were frustrated, you know, screen writers, most of them were screen writers that were frustrated, you know, with this all process, and said, "You know, I'm starting to write a book because with the book, you're the god of the world. You finish the book, it's a finished product, you know. And you can get it out there, and you can get readers to see it." So we started working with these writers, and we really enjoy it. We really enjoy the creative process. We really enjoyed that we didn't need all these people to make something happen.

So at some point, you know, one of the writers we worked with just said, "Wait, so you don't have your own business? You don't have your own PR business?" And we were like, "Oh, I guess, maybe we should." And so that's kind of how it happened, like, really, really organically. And yeah. You know, we haven't looked back since. So it's been a great ride.

C. Steven: I'm going to make the assumption that you guys are both voracious readers?

Julia: We are, we are. We're voracious readers, you know, voracious moviegoers, you know, we really like stories, you know, we really like stories in any form that they come. We listen to audiobooks a ton too. You know, we really enjoy that as well. So yeah.

C. Steven: Okay. So who can benefit from your company? Who are the people that...I noticed on the website, actually, when I started looking at the books, I noticed most of them are from traditional publishing. I really didn't see anybody who'd be an independent publisher. Is that strictly your model? Or do you expand it and allow for a wider clientele?

Julia: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I would say about 70% of our clients are traditionally-published, and 30% are self-published or with a hybrid publisher. And for us, it's just, you know, about whether we think that we can do something with the book, you know, whether we enjoy it, and then also whether we feel like it's viable in the marketplace. And I feel like with self- published authors, you know, we have some great self-published authors that really...you know, because as you know too as a self-published author, you really have to be your own publisher, you know, you really have to abide by the same standards of quality than the big five, you know, because that's how it is.

Like, no one is going to give you a break, no reader is going to give you a break saying, "Oh, it's a self-published book, so, you know, it doesn't matter that there are grammatical errors and that the website is not up to snuff," you know, and all of that stuff. Like, no. It has to be just like a traditionally-published book. And, unfortunately, very few self-published authors do that. For some reason, it feels like the ease of self-publishing almost invites, you know, being a little lazy, I guess.

And so we really love when self-published authors come to us, and they're just on it, because then, it's like, "Okay, we know we can really work with this person." And then we can do great things, you know. So I think that's probably why we, you know, work with a little bit more traditionally-published authors, because it's just kind of hard to find that person who really takes it seriously.

C. Steven: Well, there's probably the financial side of things too, you know, to get a book done and do it right with a good cover, with an editor, with a proofreader, all of that. That's gonna cost some money, and some people are not willing to invest. There are too scared of their own ability to get the word out, I think. And to spend money on top of that makes it just seem, I don't know, just kind of not real, kind of not legitimate, or illegitimate, I suppose is the word I'm looking for.

Julia: Right, right.

C. Steven: I'm sure that's part of it, anyways. When you guys promote books, are you promoting e-books? Are you promoting digital world? Are you promoting paperbacks? Are you promoting hardbacks?

Julia: Everything, everything. I mean, I definitely feel like, you know, if you want to reach the widest audience, you have to have a physical copy and any copy, and, ideally, an audiobook as well, because as you know too, the audiobook industry is just going to the roof. So there's another, you know, whole section of your audience that you're not reaching if you don't have an audiobook. Yeah.

C. Steven: Do you help shepherd people through the production of an audiobook at all?

Julia: We have done it like a couple of times. It's not something that we do a lot. But, yes, we certainly do. You know, we help them get set up with the right narrator and the right service. Then, yeah, we'll do that, of course. Yeah.

C. Steven: And so what do you think about a company like ACX?

Julia: Yeah, I think it's amazing. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know...and there are many out there like that that are, you know, kind of open platforms and I think it's great. Yeah. I really would encourage, you know, any author to produce an audiobook. I think there's a lot of great things you can do with it.

C. Steven: Do you have an opinion of people who go and pay for an actor versus doing it themselves?

Julia: Well, I would say, you know, it always helps...you know, you see it in movies too. I mean, you know, animated movies. You know, it's a trend with using actors' voices to narrate movies or audiobooks and it sure helps to have someone that that is a known quantity, I think. You know, I think it might be a little bit more important if you are you a self-published author or if it's a book that's not a genre book.

You know, we always see that if you have a genre book like thriller, mystery, romance, you know, it's a little bit easier because there's...just readers for those genres, they are just very...you know, I wouldn't say...I mean, they just read veraciously. And so I think it's a little bit easier to, you know, reach your audience with that. But if you have like something that's like literary fiction or, you know, kind of cross-genre or something, it's definitely good to have someone who's notable to open some doors.

C. Steven: Okay. By the way, I noticed when I went to your website that you had this $10 giveaway. What's that about? What do you get for $10? Or what is the $10 giveaway?

Julia: We have a newsletter, it's called the "Wildbound Breeze," that comes out every week. And it talks about what's going on in the book industry. It has helpful tips for authors and it always has a writing contest at the end or some sort of, you know, where you have to a write a caption for an image or something fun for writers to get creative. And then we always select the winner, and the winner gets $10.

C. Steven: Oh, okay. Who produces that? Is that you? Are you the one who's responsible for content on that?

Julia: Well, we always, you know, have an editorial meeting in terms of, you know, what we want in the newsletter, but then one of our team members is handling it.

C. Steven: Okay. And I'm just kinda curious because it just seems you've got so much going on. How do you schedule your time? Do you use any tips or any tricks, you know, just to make sure you get through the day and everything gets covered?

Julia: I think it helps to get up at 5:30 every morning. I would say that. And I also think, on the one hand, you have to be really disciplined. You know, as you know too, I feel like it's really easy to...I don't wanna say procrastinate, but it's like the sort of thing where you have to list, and instead of doing the list, you kind of go, oh, you know, you go with the thing that you kind of wanted, you know, or you save the stuff that's the hardest for last. Like, I always just feel like, "Okay, you know, first thing in the morning I wanna plow through the stuff that I really don't wanna do."

And then, certainly, even the rest of the day just kind of, you know, seems much easier. So I do that. And I think, on the other hand, though, too is, you know, both my husband and I, we're perfectionists. But if feel like, you just always have to do the best that you can within the circumstances, you know. And sometimes, it's just...you know, you're just human and you just kinda have to say, "Okay, fine. This is good enough. It's good enough." So I think that's kind of a good attitude to have. But, you know, it's okay.

C. Steven: I think that's a great message for writers. It's good enough finally because, you know, some writers will just, "Okay, I'm on draft number 25 now."

Julia: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think you also mentioned something great, which is true, is I think a lot of writers, you know, they're afraid that they're not good enough, and so it's almost like they kind of undermine themselves then by saying, "Oh, you know, I'm just going to kinda put myself out there. And it's not that good anyways, so who cares?" You know what I mean? Like, they kind of self-sabotage, you know. So I feel like, you know, you really have to work really hard and do your best, but then, you put it out there and then it's kind of anybody's game.

Yeah, you know, you just have to...I feel like it's a matter of self-respect, you know. You just have to say, "I did my best. I put it out there. I'm proud it. I don't care what anyone else thinks," you know. I think you really just have to, you know, be proud of your work and do your best, and then, if you do your best, then you should know inside that, you know, "I did my best. And if some people don't like it, there's nothing I can do about it."  

C. Steven: So in terms promotion, what do you do? Where will people, if I sign up with you guys and you approve of my book, etc., and it is professional enough, which is very, very important, obviously, what happens? Where will I start to go and say, "Hey that's my book," or, "Hey,..." especially if I'm an independent and I'm not somebody who can necessarily be in bookstores or even go to bookstores and do readings or anything like that?

Julia: Yeah. So all our campaigns are completely tailored to every client. And so, you know, with some traditionally-published authors, you know, we do kind of full campaigns involve, you know, social media and media outreach that includes, you know, print magazines and newspapers and online or radio and TV and, you know, the whole gamut, and, you know, rebuild their website and reproduce a book trailer. I mean, there's a lot that you can do. So it just depends for every client.

I would say for self-published authors, the first thing that we start with is to make sure that...well, to work with branding because I feel that's something really important. You know, you really need to know who you are as an author and what your brand is, you know, how you kind of want to communicate with your audience. And so that's starts with a professional website that starts with, you know, social media channels. You know, all of our clients are at least on Facebook and Twitter, that's just kind of a must, you know. And then it's about, you know, what's the content that you're putting out that will engage your target audience? And then we really start building the audience.

So we don't even do any media outreach of anything else until we have a really solid platform going. Because, you know, as a self-published author, you really have to establish your credibility with media and with your readers. And so social media has a great way to do that, you know, to make connections and, you know, to put yourself out there and to really work on your public image. And once you have that, then we do media outreach.

And I would say with self-published authors, you know, we really try to...it's really hard with the self-published book to get into the regular review sections of like, you know, big newspapers like "The Washington Post," "The New York Times," and so on, or magazines and so on.  But, you know, they always have other sections where they do profiles, or they do interviews, or they just write interesting stories.

So we always lead with the personality for self-published clients, because then we can say "Okay, you know, maybe we can pitch them an interview or a story on this author." And the book will be plugged in that story. You know, it won't be in the review section, but, you know, we still have a story in whatever, "Seventeen" magazine, or "The New York Times." So it's kind of a backdoor approach in a way to get book review coverage, but it works. So that's kind of the approach for self-published authors.

C. Steven: Well, a lot of the general thinking out there is that the more books you write, the better off you're going to be, and you can even start to bundle your books, especially if you're, you know, keeping to a series. Do you think that's true as well?

Julia: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We have a lot of clients that have, you know, written, they're like on their fourth or fifth book, you know, in a series, and it's just amazing. Like, it just keep giving, you know, because you keep building your audience and building your audience, and the more books you have out there, the more chances to be discovered by your target reader you have. And then to for every book, you can always go back to the audience you already have that keeps growing and growing. So yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, if you can, you know, depending what genre you're writing in, if you can make it a series, yes, definitely, by all means, go for it.

C. Steven: Would you have any advice for that author that just starts with that first book? You know, he or she have got no reviews. They've got the one book out. They have got so many Facebook friends. I mean, what do they do to try and get some traction on it?

Julia: You know, with the first book, like if you know it's going to be a series, I would definitely announce that. So you kind of create some sort of anticipation with the reader, right? And then, in the meantime, as you're writing the second book, and the first book is already out, you know, engage your audience with excerpts or outtakes, you know, from the book. Or kind of let them into your writing process of saying, "Oh, you know, right now, I'm writing this scene with this character and..." because you already have that audience that knows the first book, so they're invested in the first book.

So you kind of start stringing them along and keeping them engaged in kind of what's happening in the development of the book. And sometimes, you know, we have some authors that really use their audience, and they have come up with amazing ideas for the second book. You know, through social media, through feedback, you know, through social media. So you're really writing to your reader, which is awesome.

C. Steven: Now it seems to me that the direction that you guys are going is, you know, you're helping shape and helping promote in a world where traditional publishing no longer...you're kind of filling that gap that traditional publishing doesn't do anymore. You know, it's a very necessary gap that needs to be filled. But really, if you start working with independents, it seems to me that you could become your own imprint. Is that something you guys have thought about?

Julia: We have, we have. Yeah. It definitely something that, you know, we want to look into down the line just because, you know, we've now worked with a lot self-published authors where we've been there from the very beginning. So we've taken them through the actual steps of, you know, getting their book ready to be uploaded and kind of just making sure that, you know, everything aligns, and so the whole book production process actually before we even go into the promotion. And we really enjoy it. We really do. So I think at some point in the future, we will. Yeah.

C. Steven: Okay. Well, we're almost out of time, so let's see. Is there anything that you wanna discuss that I haven't brought up?

Julia: You know, we already talked about it a little bit, you know, in terms of self-publishing and, you know, I really feel like we're always impressed by writers and we always...that the writers that we see succeed are the people, you know, who really go out on a limb. Who really say, "Look, I'm passionate about this. I'm taking this seriously and..." you know, who really go for it, because you have to make an investment. You know, it's not the kind of thing where you can just kind of dip your toe, you know, in it and just see what happens. You know, you really have to say, "I'm gonna go for it." And those are the people that we've seen succeed.

So I really would say trust yourself, you know, and always remember...I think that's one thing too, because it's a tough process going through it. And I think it's always good to remember like why you really feel like you have to write this book, you know, and what was really at the core of this whole thing, because it's so easy to kind of lose sight of it. You know, there you are in the middle of promotion and everything just feels like a chore. And so I think always kind of going back to what was that spark? I think that really helps.

C. Steven: Okay. Well, I think we could sum that up in you need to believe in yourself.

Julia: Yeah, exactly.

C. Steven: You need to believe in what you're doing. How do people get in touch with you?

Julia: The best way to get in touch with us is to go to our website and on the contact page, you know, if you're interested in potentially working with us, there is prospective find questionnaire. That just kind of helps us, you know, get some idea of who you are and what your goals are and what your needs are. And fill that out, and then send it to us at the email given on the contact page. And we'll be in touch.

C. Steven: Okay. Thank you very much. You've been very, very good and very helpful.

Julia: Thank you.

C. Steven: And "The Writers Mind" and, of course me, appreciate it. Thank you, again.

Julia: Absolutely. My pleasure.

Julia Drake Discusses Public Relations for Authors

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